Bug #292 - Incompatible system font selection between &
Product:PageStream (Windows)Reported By:Tim Kahler
Severity:MajorAssigned To:Deron Kazmaier
Priority:Average sign in to watch (3 are watching)
Status:NewReported:2009-05-29 19:19:46
Category:Document/LayoutUpdated:2009-05-29 19:19:46
Summary:Incompatible system font selection between &
Keywords:system font problem
Attached Files:Font_Issues.pngLen:37,927 bytesMD5:b8d06972993e812aaadead3c74ea452b
 GarmondPGS5.0.4.46.tifLen:47,738 bytesMD5:de6a99d0b9ce76f22aa5a082b415a55b
 GaramondPGS5.0.4.4.tifLen:50,062 bytesMD5:2e7d8c6a96e0291def62ad05a96ad759
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I discovered a problem in the way deals with system fonts.

How to replicate:
Create a new document in, type some text, change it to Wingdings (Standard XP font), save document. Open file in, and you receive an error it can't find 'Windings'. No Wingdings appears on the font list, but a "Wingdings Regular' does. Change the font to that and it loads and displays correctly. Save the file, and load it back in You now receive an error it can't find 'Wingdings Regular'.

I know this is a bug in because if I copy the text from and paste it into a Word 2007 document, the text doesn't display correctly despite Word showing the text is in the 'Wingdings Regular' font. Word only shows Wingdings in its font list, and if I change the font to that it displays correctly.

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-01 02:09:30

I did just that (make text, change the font to Wingdings, save it in PGS, load this into PGS, and: no error. Wingdings in PGS is the same in (not Wingdings Regular).

I know that there are font problems! And those look similar.
For some reason my Windows version of PGS (and later) see other font (names) as older PGS versions.

On my machine (XP - Dutch) the latest versions of PGS only see Bold (so the English word) instead of Vet (Dutch word meaning Bold). Normally PGS looks for the Bold font (also when it is called Vet as on my machine) when a word is made Bold when it is made Bold with the Edit Palette B icon. But it doesn't do that anymore.
PGS is showing a selfmade boldishlike character(s). When printing or make a PDF from that document the Bold is turned into Normal.

The same applies for Italic, which is Cursief (in Dutch), for characters made italic with the I on the Edit Palette.

No solution yet other than apply the real Bold (or Italic) font to the character(s).

By the way: PGS and PGS (and later) are on the same machine, so those see the same fonts...

Tim Kahler wrote...2009-06-01 13:25:33

I just tried loading the document, as saved in, into, and I received the same error about it not finding 'Wingdings Regular'. I also tried loaded it in, and did not receive the error, so it appears the font handling change was made prior to x.34.

Tim Kahler wrote...2009-06-01 13:39:46

It gets stranger still...
I loaded the document in, changed the select text to 'Wingdings', and saved it. Then I loaded it back in I don't get the font error, when the select text is highlighted it states it's Wingdings, but I can't change any text to Wingdings, I only have Wingdings Regular. I will upload a picture of my font selector to help clarify this.

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-01 15:12:46

I have (PGS
Wingdings Regular
Wingdings 2 Regular
Wingdings 2
Wingdings 3 Regular
Wingdings 3

Now Deron can perfectly explain these kind of things...
It's true, isn't it...
Because Wingdings and Windings Regular should be the same font.
PGS has only, you guessed it, Wingdings, Wingdings 2 and Wingdings 3.

My 'Dutch' font disease:
I have Arial Narrow Bold
But also Arial Narrow Vet (the two are the same font)
Arial Narrow Bold Italic
Arial Narrow Vet Cursief (also two of a kind)

But Arial Bold and no Arial Vet...

With PGS all I have is Arial Vet (no Arial Bold), and Arial Narrow Vet and Arial Narrow Vet Cursief...

How about strange?

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-01 16:26:17

Additional info:
I have exactly the same fonts (same dates and sizes).

All of the Wingdings have in the Edit Palette Fontname (not the >>) 2 times Regular behind each name.

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-01 16:26:51

Additional info:
I have exactly the same fonts (same dates and sizes).

All of the Wingdings have in the Edit Palette Fontname (not the >>) 2 times Regular behind each name.

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-05 07:38:27

I found in PGS something strange.
In the Edit Palette there are two ways to find a font.

Click on the fontname gives for Garamond:
Regular Italic

While clicking on the >> button gives:
Garamond Italic
Garamond Bold
Garamond Cursief
Garamond Vet

Uhm, where is Regular now?
Why also Dutch (Cursief and Vet)? It's good though (Dutch Windows XP), but there are already Italic (= Cursief) and Bold (= Vet).

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-05 07:43:23

Forgot to mention that fontname clicking gives Bold twice.
And I added the GaramondPGS5.0.4.46.tif file.

Deron Kazmaier wrote...2009-06-05 10:10:56

I suppose I should have paid closer attention to what you were saying.

The font popup in the edit palette now has 2 way to show you fonts. The old way listing a single normal popup of font names, and the new way showing a popup of families with a submenu for styles. If just one style exists, then it simply shows the font name.

When you go to the font dialog box, it shows it the old way listing the font names.

Now, I've seen you debug output and for example Garamon Bold/Garamond Vet has a font name of Garamond Vet, a family name of Garamon, and a style of Bold. The font really should have a style name of Vet, but that is not my doing. That is the font or Windows (I've not look inside the font file to be sure either way).

As far as Garamond's Regular disappearing, that is simply because the font name is Garamond, the Family is Garamond, and the style is Regular. It would be very confusing if in the style list it just showed a blank name!

I hope that clears up some issues for you. I realize the duplicate name issue is still a problem (and the related issue of poor quality applied bold), but these other issues are not issues that I can resolve (or should in the case of Garamond/Garamond Regular).

T.J. Zweers wrote...2009-06-05 10:47:38

The double names, or English and Dutch names, were no problem with PGS
Something changed after this version.
I added GaramondPGS5.0.4.4.tif.

Deron Kazmaier wrote...2009-06-05 10:57:15

yes Theo, I know the double names is a new problem. That is why I said:

"I realize the duplicate name issue is still a problem (and the related issue of poor quality applied bold)"

Tim Kahler wrote...2009-06-05 13:31:16

Deron, I understand what you're saying about the new font selectors, but something did change in 5.0.4.x in the way font names are stored within the document. The font selection methods aside, copying text from PGS and pasting it into Word should not result in any font errors. It doesn't with, it does with

You might find this interesting. I just created a new document, text box, and some sample text. I picked a font that had two regular styles listed, Cooper Black. Let's call them Cooper Black Regular A, the top regular, and Cooper Black Regular B, the bottom regular.

I changed the text to Cooper Black Regular A, and pasted it into Word. It showed the text as font 'Cooper Black Regular', but it did not display the font correctly. Next I changed it to Cooper Black Regular B, and pasted that into Word. It displayed the font as 'Cooper Black', and it did display correctly.

I hope that sheds some light on this as there appears to be a functional difference between the two 'regular' fonts listed, and that it's not just a duplicate name.

Theo, try picking the second duplicate font style on the list and see how that changes things for you.

Deron Kazmaier wrote...2009-06-05 13:48:04

Tim, my comments from today were directed at Theo, who is have a similar but not identical problem.

For now, the best way to discus this is to pick/examine fonts only from the font dialog box and _not_ the family/style popup. Those are the font names in use and embedded in the document. The family/style is simply an organizational method within PageStream and each entry refers to the actual font name as displayed in font dialog box.

Henry G Belot wrote...2009-09-13 14:41:37

Unfortunately, the font chooser (dialog box) still lists and displays fonts that are unrecognized by older versions and, from what Tim's tests show, unusable in other applications. (I, too, saw that phenomenon in connection with investigating the hard-space issue I've reported, but in a situation that wasn't as clear-cut as Tim's.) In my experience, virtually any font that shows <i>"FontName</i> Regular" is a trap waiting to be sprung. The "family/style" feature is a good idea, but, as implemented, it's creating references to phantom fonts and that are invalid in older releases or outside the application.

I don't want to belabor the point, but this just isn't acceptable. I'd be happier if the feature were removed until the problem is addressed.

As far as the two "regular" references, Tim, it's been my experience that it's pretty much always the lower one that's usable. It appears to correspond to the second reference in the font dialog box, the one that displays samples. Like Deron, I recommend that method of locating fonts over any of the others. Just stay away from anything that ends with "regular" unless the sample shows a clear difference from the style without that descriptor.


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Bug #292 - Incompatible system font selection between & by Tim Kahler   system font problem
  created:2009-05-29 19:19:46   last updated:2009-05-29 19:19:46
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